We have been deployed for close to twenty years, ten years dealing with a buffoon, three years spending time in prison with them and this left a huge deficit. Through thick and thin we cannot stand them, that is the joke. It is getting easier and easier to laugh at the entire matter, but the problem is each and every time it hurts more and more. The joke is crazy. The joke is they are going to kill you and it makes you laugh. Believe it or not, everyone is laughing at their own death, it is like going to your own funeral. It makes you laugh how there is beauty in a tree. That in itself is a test of humanity, it is a joke. It makes you laugh when you are sitting there wondering who is better at getting rid of the left, the right or the left? It hurts to laugh when you are just blinded by the ignorance of others.
The sad part is we know the legacy of the cyber and satellite warfare program will be forever and those who will fulfill the duties are stricken with a tragedy, we have tried to take some of that pain away but it is not that much different either. There is no end to this tragedy and there never have been. So we set out to help, that’s all. It is not to be worshipped and it is not meant to be understood. We have a lot of work and this is not an easy comfort. This problem with the left is that annoying, it is that uncomfortable. Of course they will run but they will be right back at it. Do you want to end the tragedy because it is not your choice? As we have said, maybe you can change your fate and maybe you cannot; at least you are not powerless. You go into it with everything you have and everything available to make a difference, win. There is no other option.
We have revisited the alter of grief and guilt our entire life and to no surprise, it came back the same way each and every time. The engine of man killing man is a product of man itself. You are born into this world with a happy comfort to suffer and to seek ultimate reprisal to your own state of consciousness. In this state, you achieve your own life dreams; one that you will laugh at and hurt while laughing. That is how real the problem is. That is how real your death and birth is because what you do between those two points will make all the difference.
The movie National Treasure made an important observation when it said the treasures of the nation was not meant to be in the hands of the few. The movie They Live contradicted this when it said they are everywhere. We do not know, but we know they power of the nation is trusted in the hands of a few good people. Now you have what the founding fathers described as the balance of power and the three checks and balances. Is it worthy now or does it make others laugh and laugh more while it hurts to laugh? Is it so broken that it makes you feel this way? Who is to blame for this, the person in the mirror or the reflection when you lost yourself? You lost the war against yourself and now you want to complain about it and make a big deal about how it affected your life. Well, there are some people out there who feel different. Everybody has their price; some just put a small tag on it. That is the problem with the left; their price tag is so small nobody can see it. If the left puts a price tag big enough for others to see it, then maybe there would not be so many problems. If they put a bigger price tag on power, then the joke would go away. The laughing will still be there but you do not hurt so much when you laugh.
The left is being very careful not to get caught or write anything down, even at this point in time. Instead, they are sending envoys and representatives to negotiate their escape or prosecution. Even after they have been informed not to do this, they insist on continuing. They simply will not stop talking to us or contacting us. They refuse to turn themselves in but they are loosing touch with reality more and more. with each passing day they are slowly loosing more touch with reality while sending these envoys and diplomats now. Is it threatening? It is different as far as we can determine because they have no way to explain or escape. The only option left is to destroy us further or try to negotiate an escape.
We have been told by someone, probably the authorities, it is a spy network. This spy network has sent out gaurds who have the mentality of suicidal terrorists because they are guards. The network refuses to come out of hiding and refuses to be truthful to the prosecutors. They are just dangerous and powerful people who do not want this to end and will do anything to see it through. The spy network is trying to agitate prosecutors and scare them to drop the case against them because it will make matters appear as if the prosecutors are incompetent and are the ones to blame. They are in enough trouble as it is, this tactic is suicide and will agitate the prosecutors by trying to scare them or make them look incompetent.
We have also been told, probably by the authorities again, this clandestine group is stuck and the goal now is to make it a clandestine stuck. They do not want anyone to know they are stuck completely. They sent a message regarding supervisors again and wanting to speak to our supervisors again. We sent this message to the prosecutors and our lawyers; we want nothing to do with these or speak to them whatsoever. If they keep doing this and we respond, then they are going to say we wanted to talk to them or were interested in their services. After ten years dealing with this matter, they do not have to address anything for anyone.
We have also been told that they are searching for someone to either grab on or destroy, such as prosecutors. They cannot get out of the situation, so if they can transfer it, like how they transfer primal fear, then they will say it is a conspiracy and have proof. They are going or trying to scare the prosecutors or make them look incompetent, which is a very common tactic we experienced for ten years. All they are doing is agitating the real prosecutors and refusing the instructions to stop talking to us.
Been told these people are in a suicidal state of mind and a danger to themselves and others. They have envoys and diplomats trying to save their skin for trying to destroy us, the nation and many others. If they come out of hiding, it will expose this spy network and those who are involved. They are very high up and very powerful people, the top brass. They are still trying to change our minds and agitate the prosecutors.
After the two chapters written and published on the internet during December 17, 2007 to December 20, 2007 giving specific orders to include a name or number for any or all correspondence, two articles came in. Two were requests for money from creditors who have been informed in writing of a current federal investigation. It was clearly and concisely pointed out their cooperation was needed and whether or not any contact with federal investigators was necessary. It was clearly indicated that until this case is resolved, any actions which were gross miscalculations or deemed severe punishment, would be considered as pressure to end or sidetrack the federal investigation. Those instructions were ignored and the letters state the complaint had no bearing or fell under any relief of these two companies. They did not ask to speak to any federal investigators as the letter clearly indicated or tried to explain in good faith. Furthermore, we are being contacted in our residence by three individuals who are affiliated and with strong lifelong union ties. Their names are Sue P., Chris Y. and their son Nicholas.
For the past 12 months, we have ignored their (family of three) daily pestering and scolding. An attempt was made to be a good neighbor and be friendly. They have woken us up and kept us from sleeping after long nights of work. They stomp their feet whenever we begin working on this book, giving the impression they were upset at what we were doing and protesting by making as much noise as possible. When approached, they said we were “a bum and living off a government check” and “they were not doing anything wrong because it was daylight.” After that comment, every effort was made to ignore them. The feet stomping and the constant pestering has gone on for the past twelve months. Large items were dropped while this book was being written, feet stomping would continue throughout the night, and shout for them to go away and stop talking to us go unanswered. Ten hours a day is spent on this book and there is hardly any public contact, the only contact has been this and the letters in the mail. A writing mode has been employed where very limited public contact is available and no ventures are made outside. These people have had their bell rung so many times; the family of three who want to be the heroes of the poor even said while this paragraph is being written we are weak. Four days ago they said, “Because we are ignorant” and “you are fake”; they were told to stop calling us and if they called again, their identity and actions would be reported, madness of people who are hurt. When work on this book begins, they try to distract your train of thought and if you are on something very important, they make a racket. So we work mostly at night now. They were told to be quiet and go away and the feet stomping began nonstop as protest. This was the response to it.
What they probably did was use the home invasion and arrests to enter the residence and set up some type of surveillance equipment, and then made this demand to speak to our supervisors and demand some payment. This would be how they respond to the paragraphs and chapters are they are written and tell us we are weak. We are also missing the chapter on nuclear strategy and the policy called “US Resolve: A Primer for Nuclear Strategy.” After the arrest, there were things missing and the vehicle damaged in vandalism was totaled due to flooding and electrical problems. There is no way to document every single detail because it is just too much and too many to list from 1998 to 2008. There is no way to explain the experience itself for the past ten years while efforts to ask the people behind it to go away fall on deaf ears. Right now they are agitating the real prosecutors more and making them look utterly incompetent; are they or are they behind it? This is a hardcore spy network with a lot to loose and a lot on the line.
The instructions are clearly stated, we do not want any clandestine communications or envoys to negotiate the matter or destroy us further. Apparently these envoys are asking to take the blame or the entire matter and wish to speak to our supervisors. They said this is war, they sound completely whacked out if they think a man, a woman, and a kid is responsible for this. We also notified the federal authority some attempt was being made to give the feeling you were a captive or still a captive in your own residence. If this is the case, then the heroes of the poor and the ones behind this is actually some family with union dogma or they want some notoriety in the situation. We have taken a policy of ignoring the situation and forwarding all information collected on to our lawyers and the real prosecutors. We are fed up with their antics and scare tactics, they are trouble and they are in a lot of trouble.
Most of the problems are from the three residences in the building that place daily pressure on us by agitating and frustrating the effort to write this book. They are so distracting, even shouts for them to knock it off or go away fall to deaf ears. Then they follow you through the residence. If you are in the kitchen, they go in the kitchen. If you are in the bedroom, they go in the bedroom. If you are sleeping, they drop large objects on the wooden floor which sends a shriek. They also complained to the landlord how complaints were only intended to get back at them or done to retaliate. The landlord did not know what was going on, but when things finally quieted down, they complained about the use of a kerosene heater. Keep in mind, there is no heat because the gas company sent a bill for over two hundred dollars during the middle of summer and demanded money. Therefore, this complaint was meant to make us pay the two hundred dollars to the gas company. After the state was contacted about false billing, the gas company began offering a usage relief for those who used their service often and announced they must offset that refund by charging others to compensate. The average cost of a gas bill was usually forty dollars a month. In the middle of summer, they sent a bill for two hundred and said it was very suspicious also but there were no technical errors.
The two companies who responded to the postings called “Bunker Mentality” and “Top Brass” which is dated by articles in the chapter as only seven days old is Great Lakes Higher Education Guaranty Corporation who took over our federal college loans. The second company who responded was Rubin and Rothman of New York. We would like justice to be performed by those who have been working on similar cases. We do not know if this was a blatant attempt to answer some of the criticisms for anonymous calls and faxes received over the last ten years and further insistence of wanting to help and some payment. All we know is the same things; protectors, wanting to help, constant pestering, and waves of people you want to scream at, and everything documented. The trouble follows you around everywhere then it says how it is top brass or the police. They come to America and terrorize everybody with their politics and dreams of global domination. Then they turn around and say how they are sympathy to minorities and immigration. Need proof? They do not even have enough respect to tell those, who are the real people, who defend the nation the truth. Instead they destroy them.
The suspicious part of the two letters is the origin of one of them. Great Lakes Higher Education has changed their address which used to be Wisconsin to San Diego, California. Our family lives in San Diego, California and it is not certain why they made it clear to indicate this new origin. They want money and they want payment in the form of legislation from the Congress and President. Do not give in to them and let the real prosecutors handle the matter even if they use family members as some shield to protect them. Right now they are trying to create a lot of diversions to get our train of thought off and possess us with this primal fear they have. It is a large effort to surge the primal fear in a last ditch effort. They will probably try to take advantage of the trust of family members and use this in a positive or negative way.
Even under the scrutiny of the FBI, they will say, “We made them what they are or we made them we can break them.” They are clever by suggesting it but never fully giving a chance to fully prosecute. Note, they just jump in your life one day without any invitation or notice. This is because they want to help; they are protectors and our best friends and partners who have stalked us for some time using one bargaining chip after another. Everybody is an engineer and really do not need their trusting smile and rip off as protectors. That is their whole and entire purpose of stalking, to be some imaginary protector, it is clinically insane. They might be trying to say they have or had offered them protection and want something back. All of this has something to do with protecting your family, being your friend to the point of stalking, then seeking influence or power. If the cyber and satellite warfare program wants to make a critical decision, we will do it on our own decisions and not this clinical insanity. These are not advisors, not friends, not educators, not partners as they continue to claim. They are clandestine enemies of the state. They are trying to buy into influence and power and it is very annoying. It is even more annoying when they keep on insisting they are the police, show some identification. If it was a police sting, then it would be over, they would be ignored. If they wish to help, they can consider suicide instead of making others. That is terrorizing others and trying everything to force them to do things they do not want to or have to. If they have a problem, why don’t they speak to the real prosecutors or legislators? Why do they have to kidnap someone and make demands for reform or money?
All we know is they keep saying they want to help while creating more financial chaos and problems, bankruptcy. They kept ignoring written communications and spoken word while they kept saying they wanted to help and the story of ten years is the way it is. Now they are responding to written information posted on the internet. We kept telling someone to speak to federal prosecutors and they would attack and arrest you. Now they are saying they are friends with family members who live in San Diego, California. Our life has been hell for the past ten years because of these people. (Hint) Now they are saying it is them who are affected by this and they have a right to protest. (Hint) They ruin every aspect of your life and tell you they are affected and only want to help. (Hint) They say their reputation is at stake and they are not doing anything wrong. (Hint) If they feel this is how to defend the nation, then they can be honest with the real prosecutors for this ordeal. If they feel their work is such an importance for the nation, then they can put into writing all the events for the real prosecutors to decipher. Even though they are a ticking time bomb they refuse to cooperate with real prosecutors and face justice, why does everyone have to be hurt and why does everyone have to be humiliated? Why does everyone have to feel incompetent when it is the work of some?
This is ten years long and counting. Do they give up or will they give up? Furthermore, it is not the right; checks were made a verification methods were done, it is the left. It sounds like or similar to the right because they try to present themselves as educators or teachers. They are going around impersonating the right and inciting a fight. They are also saying they have to have a fair chance and explain. This is why the cyber and satellite warfare program is so upset with the right; we still are for this problem with getting rid of the left. They keep insisting they want to help and are the police or affiliated with the police. Why did they destroy our finances and block all funding if they were the police or affiliated with them? It is completely insane and mad and the handiwork of madness. Fed up does not do justice to the situation. Is this a bribe or is this something else? What the hell is it and what are they doing here? It is probably some nutty professor from the past who decided to sign his star student into some graduate course against their will and introduce them to all the powerful elites who he serves. Then he disappeared and left matters in the hands of lunatics and criminals. They probably want others to write about them or kind words about their work. There is no way to assess this matter and they must cooperate with the prosecutors who are waiting patiently. We know it is a clandestine spy network that got in touch with us and they are very powerful.
The same people taunt you by saying you are fake, and then they say how they will go across the battlefield with a rifle and prove it. This is what kind of people they are and who they say it to. What started out as a book written while in college turned into an ordeal with a clandestine spy network. It is a clandestine spy network bent on executing others and blaming the right. Will it ever stop; no because they now turn around and complain about it. If it hurts to laugh, then ask why it hurts to laugh. Is it because they are a ticking time bomb? Is it because they are a clandestine spy network who makes others feel incompetent? Is it because they are flat out dangerous and a threat beyond all else? Why does it hurt to laugh? Is it because they come to this country, abuse the freedom, spit on others, and terrorize others with their politics and dreams of global domination? If so, will they ever admit it or cooperate with real prosecutors or will they destroy them and destroy others at the ballot box?
Here is another way to look at the situation. There is some type of program for geniuses where the government chooses or enrolls prodigies and siblings without their knowledge or consent. Once conscripted in this program, the political sides choose and let the blood bond of the siblings represent some secret compact to share power while they destroy each other or work to destroy each other. One is chosen for revolutionary school and the other is chosen for a model nuclear style family setting. One has a stable life and the other has a life full of trouble, some type of black sheep.
Out of this uncomfortable power structure to benefit society, the people behind it feel they will get answers to their problems while the two sides are bonded by this blood relationship. Additionally, they feel they will get answers while the compact between the two sides to share power are bonded. How they identify you as a genius or child prodigy we do not know.
Naturally, most people will not even know they are enrolled in some revolutionary school because it feels like a teacher or some professor is calling the shots and governing your fate. This revolutionary school is meant to produce the alter ego of the blood bond, the opposite character. These are flat out crackers and hags who are powerful socialists trapped in their own mind field of failure. Flat out psychotic and cruel. To give you an example of what is meant, they insist on tagging along and going everywhere with you. So we blast heavy metal music such as Godsmack and others to enjoy the message. Whenever they say we are fake and weak, they get acoustical interrogation where their desire to tag along becomes a nightmare. Their central nervous system literally shuts down and their mind goes haywire in a state of discombobulating. They loose all control of motor skills and become so angry and hateful, we tell them they have a choice when stalking somebody to stop stalking them. It is like a stalker who is also a test dummy. If you read this book, they will hit back and hit hard.
They say they are there as protectors and to protect their interests. They are trying to catch us breaking the law in other words. Read carefully what they claim and what they do or use the opportunity for, recruitment and brain washing. When they go through acoustical interrogation, it is like feeding crack to a rat and seeing it go berserk because it just does not belong. You really screwed up their day as a spy or someone conducting surveillance and they are filled with rage. At the same time, they are skirting around like an annoying peeping tom digging up whatever they can and you are powerless to get rid of them. You cannot complain about this hag or the cracker who is writing some false and made up report about you for their leftist revolutionaries.
All they are is some burnt out tyrant or despot who feels tribute must be paid so they can feed their leftist armies while supporting their collective goals. All they are is a bunch of nasty old hags who think they are beautiful and powerful while trying to act helpful. You cannot help but to give them a piece of your mind and put them in their place. They have no sense of privacy or respect for others, they are also pathological liars. The most disturbing part is what they do and how they hate people who have good physical appearances or take good care of their bodies. They literally cut your feet off and bring you down to their levels while you are supposed to respect your nappy professor who you want to scream at. There was a tremendous decline in appearance and physical health because of this naggy nappy annoying peeping tom who gave us the biggest fall of our life and felt it would make us more suggestive and learn their bite. These people are psychotic.
These are crackers and hags who are powerful leftists and they do not want to see their little show come to an end. They keep saying they wish to help, we need their help, and they are very wise; while they literally try to take advantage of you. They use this blood bond between siblings to create an alter ego between them and solve their troubled political life or life. They put you in difficult situations and make you solve it. Then they send it to their political bosses who draft some kind of legislation and it just pisses you off because they used you to help the poor and make the left powerful against your will. They feel this is their war and you were drafted in their war on poverty.
Usually, this kind of stuff begins at a very young age but somebody decided to break the rules and make an exception because they were so desperate. They were busted in the act of doing this and are on the run from real prosecutors for doing this when they were exposed. If they ask people to volunteer to fight the war on poverty, it would be one thing, they give you no choice and once in, you have no choice. All in the name of poverty; whether they are the left or right does not matter because there is no way to tell the difference sometimes. The goal should be to get rid of the left and they conscript you in the name of national security or social patriotism. We busted them wide open for one trick and lie after the other. Both parties are going to say this is how you contribute to your nation and this is very disturbing to hear because all they want is the Nobel Peace Prize or to steal the antidote to save their family jewels. If it is successful, then it is a day for national celebration, if not then it was in the name of national security. All you want to do is screaming at these people and tell them to go away and stop abusing power.
Some rotten fool put us in some program or tried to create some revolutionary hero for the poor. If anything, then to argue their point but they kept forcing the fact they were best friends, partners and wanted to only help. They said there was no evil intended and we are fighting for the same causes. This book was never intended to be about this but it turned out to be in the end. This is why it is a big joke and why it hurts so much laughing about it. You literally want to cry if you are even capable of this, which we are not. We get filled with rage and fury as the best soldiers in the world. It is some kind of left wing draft system for the war on poverty meant to make you a ticking time bomb like them. Then they complain about how they are victims of hate. It has nothing to do with that, it is about a hatred of criminals, lunatics, spies, abuse of power, and most of all a total invasion of your privacy. They deserve every single ounce of pain and grief life has to offer while they insist they are the authority and the police. This is the worst lie of them all. They either claim or already claim dominion in national security and also trying to reclaim it.
The bottom line is they come in your life like arrogant despots and tyrants, then make you defend every aspect of it while taunting you about how weak or fake you are. They call you all the time and tell you how beautiful and sophisticated they are while trying to get money from you. Then they say they just want to help and your life is a complete hurricane of a mess. Next they argue about it and how they are top brass or how powerful they are so you cannot fight it. They say the nation is at war and they are your masters.
When the real authorities catch up with these pathological liars, they will find a huge leftist spy network, it is guaranteed by the cyber and satellite warfare program. We will put our reputation on the line even if they have reduced us to nothing. They are the smartest people in the room and admire this, if they can make you evil or a ticking time bomb. It is a massive spy network and powerful as heck, this is why they are so dangerous. It has taken a long time to bring them to justice and in that time, they have become huge. This is how and why they simply popped up in 1998 and tried to claim some national treasure which doesn’t even belong to them. They appear out of nowhere, abduct or kidnap you, and then you are in some spy network or training program where nobody has any ID or writes anything down. They never reveal themselves or their identification. They make you think they are educating you or teaching you and this is helpful to your life. This is why they were identified early as not belonging at all and approached. They also lied completely by saying they were not doing anything wrong or were just protesting because they were mistrustful.
This brings us to this question, how do you get rid of the left when they are this powerful and have hijacked the government? They are working with some of the most powerful officials on earth and we witnessed it when our ideas became laws quickly. The American psycho is not a myth. They all have some type of agreement with each other because they are in some secret society where they bounce around in jobs and get promoted. It is a compact to share power and the President also acknowledged he agreed to this and approved of it. That is how it happened under his watch. Maybe he is silenced or a hostage, we do not know. We can only speak of our own experience and how no protection was ever given or even offered. We had to fend for ourselves.
These people are so careless and reckless; they do a lackluster job protecting the nation. They are so careless they do not even screen their candidates to see if leftists and revolutionary ideology is tolerated. It ends up as an abuse of power and everyone getting hurt. People end up wanting to cry if they are capable of this and it ends up hurting when you laugh at the left. It is a complete joke and a circus. They come to this country and think their freedom gives them the right to terrorize others with their politics because they have been doing this for over two hundred years and now they are rich and powerful socialists. They come in your life, say they are the police and top brass and set out to break you. When they are done, you are lucky if you can function. That is why it hurts so much when laughing. Is this the left or the right? We know the right gets blamed but who is it? You do not even know how you got on their list because you are doing your best to just ignore them while they are trying to surround you and put thoughts in your mind. We tested this by going mobile state to state. We tested this by going out of the borders; they are playing with others reality. It takes them almost six months to regroup and catch up to you again. For some reason, they want to blame the right and incite violence; they want something and do not let up until they get it.
This was just another perspective on the events and why it hurts so much to laugh sometimes. Read this book carefully, it is from the best soldiers in the world; we promise and stake our reputation on the line. Understand we busted them and took some massive punches. Even in prison they would incite fights and always back down until they jump you to reclaim their pride. They want to etch the message of how the left is more powerful and you cannot win against them. When you are in federal prison and have taken enough of this and lock that door, you will know what kind of person they truly are. To retaliate, they put you in solitary confinement to break you again and make things really miserable. If they think they are the best soldiers, they can take the test. They will turn around and complain about it also. It is a weak on crime attitude they put you through and against some of the fiercest looking people, street thugs who have attitude problems.
These people are so dangerous and their network is so huge, you will have to fire everyone to root out the clandestine. There is a code of silence and it is enforced by the top brass to share power. They need to be chewed out in a major way for even allowing this to happen let alone ten years and two imprisonments. We took all the punches and they will try to capture the fame and be seen with us or get a executive retirement because it is wave after wave and a promise it will never happen again.
The more you read this book, the more powerful you will become. We promise. If you are wounded as we are and read this book, you will feel the power, we promise this also. It will give you back your life and chase the demons away. We are the best soldiers and have the entire battlefield view and we know what goes on in it. If it hurts to laugh then you have been hurt by psychopathic lunatics, it may hurt to laugh and this is a promise. You will begin to see things you have never seen before, that is a promise. This is because it is a key to a door in the consciousness which makes logic flow and gives us power. You will feel this power flowing in you because we are the best soldiers, we promise. We are also very mad this happened and how everyone had to suffer and be humiliated. It is a window to your own soul if there is any. You will stick out like a sore thumb, we promise. It is an infinite loop and a cumulative view of reality which was very difficult to put in one book. The fear will subside and the power will flow if you have a soul because it was only meant for the good of this earth. If the left continue to read this book, we promise they will be a changed person and hopefully they perish or stick out like a sore thumb. The only person they can blame is justice and the truth. That is the engine of man killing man and the inescapable reality of human kindness. This is why life is so difficult to live and why the left make it even more difficult if not impossible.
It helps when people hear speeches like this by Ron Paul. They do not care, but others care enough not to be like them. Speeches like this need applause because what this nation needs is to get rid of problems we know are permanent or long term. Final note on this chapter, some of the chapters posted were altered a bit and had parts missing when a final review was conducted. People are pissed off enough as it is already and there is a sneaky little person who just will not leave it alone. Also keep in mind, the President has not given an explanation how this happened under his watch. Even the left responded but it is still clandestine. We are waiting for the Bush Administration to respond and for the left to cooperate with the real prosecutors. If they are who they say, they will come forward instead of hiding behind any mask. Look at us; can they get any higher than this? If so, would they be willing to go offshore with it or challenge this? Some people only like to hide and make excuses when there is none whatsoever. If they came to this nation to terrorize others with their politics, claim they were here first; then they need to come forward, that is an order they cannot refuse. They were not here first; they were only here because the borders were open to anyone, anything, and any beast. They have really ticked off some people especially this claim to be the police. The rip off just does not work any longer but they are relentless. Why don’t they try asking next time or seeking approval rather than take the law into their own hands. We were forced to show our ID for scrutiny, it is their turn.
‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Dec. 23, 2007
Representative Ron Paul (R-TX)
MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: Our Meet the Candidates 2008 series continues an exclusive interview with Republican Ron Paul. He has served in the U.S. House of Representatives for 18 years. In 1988 he was the Libertarian Party candidate for president. Since October he has raised nearly $19 million. That is more than any other Republican candidate for president. Our guest, Dr. Ron Paul.
Then, only 11 days to the Iowa caucuses, the candidates unveil special holiday political commercials.
FMR. GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: What really matters is a celebration of the birth of Christ.
(End videotape)
(Videotape)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Where did I put universal pre-K?
(End videotape)
(Videotape)
FMR. MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI: It'll be a really nice fruitcake with a big, red bow on it.
(End videotape)
(Videotape)
Barack Obama's Daughter: Merry Christmas.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: The very latest polls and strategies with John Harwood of CNBC and the New York Times, and Chuck Todd, political director for NBC News. But first we're joined by Dr. Ron Paul, Republican candidate for president. Dr. Paul, welcome to MEET THE PRESS.
REP. RON PAUL (R-TX): Thank you. Nice to be here.
MR. RUSSERT: Let's start right at the very top, the issues. This is what you have been saying on the campaign stump, "I'd like to get rid of the IRS. I want to get rid of the income tax." Abolish it.
REP. PAUL: That's a good idea. I like that idea.
MR. RUSSERT: What would happen to all those lost revenues? How would we fund our government?
REP. PAUL: We have to cut spending. You can't get rid of the income tax if you don't get rid of some spending. But, you know, if you got rid of the income tax today you'd have about as much revenue as, as we had 10 years ago, and the size of government wasn't all that bad 10 years ago. So there're sources of revenues other than the income tax. You know, you have, and you have tariff, excise taxes, user fees, and highway fees. So, so there's still a lot of money. But the real problem is spending. But, you know, we lived a long time in this country without an income tax. Up until 1913 we didn't have it.
MR. RUSSERT: But, but you eliminate the income tax, do you know how much lost revenue that would be?
REP. PAUL: A lot. But...
MR. RUSSERT: Over a trillion dollars.
REP. PAUL: That's good. I mean, we--but we could save hundreds of billions of dollars if we had a sensible foreign policy.
MR. RUSSERT: Well...
REP. PAUL: And if you go--if you're going to be the policeman of the world, you need that. You need the income tax to police the world and run the welfare state. I want a constitutional-size government.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you replace the income tax with anything else?
REP. PAUL: Not if I could help it. You know, there are some proposals where probably almost anything would be better than income tax. But there's a lot of shortcomings with the, with the sales tax. But it would probably be slightly better than the income tax--it would be an improvement. But the goal is to cut the spending, get back to a sensible-size government.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you had a flat tax, 30 percent consumption tax, that would be very, very punishing to the poor and middle class.
REP. PAUL: Well, I know. That's why I don't want it.
MR. RUSSERT: So you have nothing?
REP. PAUL: I want to cut spending. I want to get a--use the Constitution as our guide, and you wouldn't need the income tax.
MR. RUSSERT: Let's talk about some of the ways you recommend. "I'd start bringing our troops home, not only from the Middle East but from Korea, Japan and Europe and save enough money to slash the deficit." How much money would that save?
REP. PAUL: To operate our total foreign policy, when you add up everything, there's been a good study on this, it's nearly a trillion dollars a year. So I would think if you brought our troops home, you could save hundreds of billions of dollars. It's, you know, it's six months or one year or two year, but you can start saving immediately by changing the foreign policy and not be the policeman over the world. We should have the foreign policy that George Bush ran on. You know, no nation building, no policing of the world, a humble foreign policy. We don't need to be starting wars. That's my argument.
MR. RUSSERT: How many troops do we have overseas right now?
REP. PAUL: I don't know the exact number, but more than we need. We don't need any.
MR. RUSSERT: It's 572,000. And you'd bring them all home?
REP. PAUL: As quickly as possible. We--they will not serve our interests to be overseas. They get us into trouble. And we can defend this country without troops in Germany, troops in Japan. How do they help our national defense? Doesn't make any sense to me. Troops in Korea since I've been in high school?
MR. RUSSERT: What...
REP. PAUL: You know, it doesn't make any sense.
MR. RUSSERT: Under President Paul, if North Korea invaded South Korea, would we respond?
REP. PAUL: I don't--why should we unless the Congress declared war? I mean, why are we there? Could--South Korea, they're begging and pleading to unify their country, and we get in their way. They want to build bridges and go back and forth. Vietnam, we left under the worst of circumstances. The country is unified. They have become Westernized. We trade with them. Their president comes here. And Korea, we stayed there and look at the mess. I mean, the problem still exists, and it's drained trillion dollars over these last, you know, 50 years. So stop--we can't afford it anymore. We're going bankrupt. All empires end because the countries go bankrupt, and the, and the currency crashes. That's what happening. And we need to come out of this sensibly rather than waiting for a financial crisis.
MR. RUSSERT: So if Iran invaded Israel, what do we do?
REP. PAUL: Well, they're not going to. That is like saying "Iran is about to invade Mars." I mean, they have nothing. They don't have an army or navy or air force. And Israelis have 300 nuclear weapons. Nobody would touch them. But, no, if, if it were in our national security interests and Congress says, "You know, this is very, very important, we have to declare war." But presidents don't have the authority to go to war.
MR. RUSSERT: You...
REP. PAUL: You go to the Congress and find out if they want a war, do the people want the war. But it's totally unnecessary. I mean, that, that, to me, is an impossible situation...
MR. RUSSERT: If...
REP. PAUL: ...for the Iranians to invade Israel.
MR. RUSSERT: This is what you said about Israel. "Israel's dependent on us, you know, for economic means. We send them" "billions of dollars and they," then they "depend on us. They say, `Well, you know, we don't like Iran. You go fight our battles. You bomb Iran for us.' And they become dependent on us." Who in Israel is saying "Go bomb Iran for us"?
REP. PAUL: Well, I don't know the individuals, but we know that their leaderships--you read it in the papers on a daily--a daily, you know, about Israel, the government of Israel encourages Americans to go into Iran, and the people--I don't think that's a--I don't think that's top secret that the government of Israel...
MR. RUSSERT: That the government of Israel wants us to bomb Iran?
REP. PAUL: I, I don't think there's a doubt about that, that they've encouraged us to do that. And of course the neoconservatives have been anxious to do that for a long time.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you cut off all foreign aid to Israel?
REP. PAUL: Absolutely. But remember, the Arabs would get cut off, too, and the Arabs get three times as much aid altogether than Israel. But why, why make Israel so dependent? Why do we--they give up their sovereignty. They can't defend their borders without coming to us. If they want a peace treaty, they have to ask us permission. They can't--we interfere when the Arab leagues make overtures to them. So I would say that we've made them second class citizens. I, I think they would take much better care of themselves. They would have their national sovereignty back, and I think they would be required then to have a stronger economy because they would have to pay their own bills.
MR. RUSSERT: You talked about September 11th in one of the Republican debates back in May, and this is what you said.
(Videotape)
REP. PAUL: They don't come here to attack us because we're rich and we're free. They come and they and they attack us because we're over there.
MR. RUSSERT: "Because we're over there." And then you added this on Tuesday: "But" al-Qaeda has "determination. The determination comes from being provoked." How have we, the United States, provoked al-Qaeda?
REP. PAUL: Well, read what the lead--the ringleader says. Read what Osama bin Laden said. We had, we had a base, you know, in Saudi Arabia that was an affront to their religion that was blasphemy as far as they were concerned. We were bombing Iraq for 10 years, we were--we've interfered in Iran since 1953. Our CIA's been involved in the overthrow of their governments. We're bought right now in the process of overthrowing that nation. We side more with Israel and Pakistan, and, and they get annoyed with this. How would we react if we were on their land--if they were on our land? We would be very annoyed, and we'd be fighting mad.
MR. RUSSERT: So under your doctrine, if we had--did not have troops in the Middle East, they would leave us alone.
REP. PAUL: Not, not immediately, because they'd have to believe us. But what would happen is the incentive for Osama bin Laden to recruit suicide terrorists would disappear. Once we left Lebanon in the early '80s, the French and the Americans and Israelis left Lebanon, suicide terrorism virtually stopped, just like that. But while we were there, that was suicide terrorism killed our Marines, because we were in Lebanon. So we have to understand that. We have to understand how we would react if some country did to us exactly what we do to them, and then we might have a better understanding of their motivation, why somebody would join the al-Qaeda. Since we've been over there al-Qaeda has more members now than they did before 9/11. They probably had a couple hundred before 9/11.
MR. RUSSERT: It sounds like you think that the problem is al-Qaeda--the problem is the United States, not al-Qaeda.
REP. PAUL: No, it's both. It's both--al-Qaeda becomes the violent. It's sort of like if you step in a snake pit and you get bit, you know who caused the trouble? Because you stepped in the snake pit or because snakes bite you? So I think you have to understand both. But why, why produce the incentive for these violent, vicious thugs to want to come here and kill us.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you think there's an ideological struggle that Islamic fascists want to take over the world?
REP. PAUL: Oh, I think some, just like the West is wanting to do that all the time. Look at the way they look at us. I mean, we're in a, we're in a 130 countries. We have 700 bases. How do you think they proposed that to their people, saying "What does America want to do? Are they over here to be nice to us and teach us how to be good Democrats?"
MR. RUSSERT: So you see a moral equivalency between the West and Islamic fascism.
REP. PAUL: For some people, some radicals on each side that when we impose our will with force by a few number of people--not the American people--I'm talking the people who have hijacked our foreign policy, the people who took George Bush's foreign policy of a humble foreign policy and turned it into one of nation-building which he complained about.
MR. RUSSERT: The president himself?
REP. PAUL: The president himself has changed the policy. You know, I mean, he ran--I liked the program he ran on. That's what I defend. And--but all of a sudden--and it didn't change after 9/11, it changed the first meeting of the Cabinet according to Paul O'Neal. He says immediately it was on the table. When, when were we going to attack Iraq?
MR. RUSSERT: You mentioned September 11th, a former aide of yours, Eric Dondero said this. "When September 11th happened, he just completely changed," talking about you. "One of the first things he said was not how awful the tragedy was, it was, `Now we're going to get big government.'" Was that your reaction?
REP. PAUL: Well, I'm, I'm surprised somebody like that who's a disgruntled former employee who literally was put out. But, yes, thought...
MR. RUSSERT: He said he quit because he disagreed with you.
REP. PAUL: Yeah, no. The point is, Randolph Bourne says war is a helpless state. I believe that statement. When you have war, whether it's a war against drugs, war against terrorism, war, war overseas, war--the mentality of the people change and they're more willing to sacrifice their liberties in order to be safe and secure. So, yes, right after 9/11 my reaction was, you know, it's going to be a lot tougher selling liberty. But I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm still in the business of selling liberty and the Constitution and there's still a lot of enthusiasm for it. So all the American people don't agree that we have to have the nanny state and have the government taking care of us. So I have been encouraged. I might have been too pessimistic immediately after 9/11 because, in a way, it has caused this reaction and this uprising in this country to say, "Enough is enough. We don't need more Patriot Acts, we don't need more surveillance of our people. We don't need national ID cards. We don't need the suspension of habeas corpus. What we need is more freedom." So in one way I was pessimistic, but in another way, now, I'm more encouraged with the reception I'm getting with this message.
MR. RUSSERT: And you actually go further. You said this. "Abolish the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Central Intelligence Agency and dismantle every other agency except the Justice and Defense Departments." And then you went on. "If elected president, Paul says he would abolish public schools, welfare, Social Security and farm subsidies."
REP. PAUL: OK, you may have picked that up 20 or 30 years ago, it's not part of my platform. As a matter of fact, I'm the only one that really has an interim program. Technically, a lot of those functions aren't constitutional. But the point is I'm not against the FBI investigation in doing a proper role, but I'm against the FBI spying on people like Martin Luther King. I'm against the CIA fighting secret wars and overthrowing government and interfering...
MR. RUSSERT: Would you abolish them?
REP. PAUL: I would, I would not abolish all their functions, but I--the, the, the...
MR. RUSSERT: What about public schools? Are you still...
REP. PAUL: OK, but let's go, let's go with the CIA. They're, they're involved in, in, in torture. I would abolish that, yes. But I wouldn't abolish their right and our, our requirement to accumulate intelligence for national defense purposes.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you...
REP. PAUL: That's quite different.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you eliminate the income tax, you take away half the revenues for the federal government. What you're left with is the Defense Department, Social Security, Medicare and pensions. Everything else is gone. So you have to start making choices if you're going to keep...
REP. PAUL: All right. We can. The big one is overseas expenditure. You have to develop a transition. You have to start paying down the deficit, balance the budget. But you have to say I believe the most reasonable place to save is in foreign policy, hundreds of billions of dollars. Because it gets us into trouble, it ruins our national--our defense is poor now. Then the Department of Education, who--we elect conservatives to get rid of the Department of Education. We used to campaign on that. And what did we do? We doubled the size. I want to reverse that trend.
MR. RUSSERT: What about public schools?
REP. PAUL: That's what I'm trying to...
MR. RUSSERT: Are you still for...
REP. PAUL: No, I'm not--I've never, I've never taken the position--is it in my platform? And...
MR. RUSSERT: It was--when you ran for president in 1988, you called for the abolition of public schools.
REP. PAUL: I, I bet that's a misquote. I, I do not recall that. I'd like to know where that came from, because I went...
MR. RUSSERT: And Social Security? You're OK with Social Security now?
REP. PAUL: I think we need to get--give--offer the kids the chance to get out. But right now, if I don't--if we don't save the money, we can't take care of the other. For instance, Social Security, I never voted to spend one penny of Social Security money. So I'm the one that has saved it. Now, if I save the money in this military operation overseas, I say take that money--and, and I say this constantly--don't turn anybody out on the streets. People we have conditioned--yes, technically we shouldn't have them, and it'd be nice to get rid of them, but I would say take care of the people that are dependent on us. Let them--and the only way you can do that is cut spending. If we don't, they're all going to be out in the street. Because right now Social Security beneficiaries are getting 2 percent raises, their cost of living is going up 10 percent. A dollar crisis is going to wipe them all out. That's my point.
MR. RUSSERT: When I looked at your record, you talked about big government and how opposed you are to it, but you seem to have a different attitude about your own congressional district. For example, "Congress decided to send billions of dollars to victims of Hurricane Katrina. Guess how Ron Paul voted. `Is bailing out people" that choose--"that chose to live on the coastline a proper function of the federal government?' he asks." And you said no. And yet, this: "Paul's current district, which includes Galveston and reaches into" the "Brazoria County, draws a substantial amount of federal flood insurance payments." For your own congressional district. This is the Houston Chronicle: "Representative Ron Paul has long crusaded against a big central government. But he also" "represented a congressional district that's consistently among the top in Texas in its reliance on dollars from Washington. In the first nine months of the federal government's" fiscal "2006 fiscal year," "it received more than $4 billion." And they report, The Wall Street Journal, 65 earmark-targeted projects, $400 million that you have put into congressional bills for your district, which leads us to the Congressional Quarterly. "The Earmark Dossier of `Dr. No.' There isn't much that" Ron--Dr. "Ron Paul thinks the federal government should do. Apparently, though, earmarks" for his district "are OK. Paul is the sponsor of no fewer than 10 earmarks in the water resources bill," all benefiting his district. The Gulf Intercoastal Waterway: $32 million. The sunken ship you want to be moved from Freeport Harbor. The Bayou Navigation Channel. They talk about $8 million for shrimp fishermen.
REP. PAUL: You, you know...
MR. RUSSERT: Why, why would you load up...
REP. PAUL: You got it completely wrong. I've never voted for an earmark in my life.
MR. RUSSERT: No, but you put them in the bill.
REP. PAUL: I put it in because I represent people who are asking for some of their money back. But it doesn't cut any spending to vote against an earmark. And the Congress has the responsibility to spend the money. Why leave the money in the executive branch and let them spend the money?
MR. RUSSERT: Well, that's like, that's like saying you voted for it before you voted against it.
REP. PAUL: Nah! Come on, Tim. That has nothing to do with that.
MR. RUSSERT: If, if, if you put it in the bill and get the headlight back home...
REP. PAUL: No, I, I make the request. They're not in the bills.
MR. RUSSERT: ...and then you, then you know it's going to pass Congress and so you, you don't refuse the money.
REP. PAUL: Well, no, of course not. It's like taking a tax credit. If you have a tax credit, I'm against the taxes but I take all my tax credits. I want to get...
MR. RUSSERT: But if you were true...
REP. PAUL: ...the money back for the people.
MR. RUSSERT: If you were true to your philosophy, you would say no pork spending in my district.
REP. PAUL: No, no, that's not it. They steal our money, that's like saying that people shouldn't take Social Security money.
MR. RUSSERT: For...
REP. PAUL: I don't advocate that.
MR. RUSSERT: All right, let me ask you this...
REP. PAUL: I'm trying to save the system, make the system work.
MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask you this...
REP. PAUL: But no, I think you have it all mixed up. Now, you're confused.
MR. RUSSERT: All right. It's all facts.
REP. PAUL: You're confused.
MR. RUSSERT: This is The Wall Street Journal. You load up the bills with special projects...
REP. PAUL: I--no, no, no. No, you don't.
MR. RUSSERT: You do. You do. You deny that you have, you have...
REP. PAUL: How many of them ever got passed? But the whole point is, we have a right and an...
MR. RUSSERT: They pass. You vote against them, but you take the money.
REP. PAUL: You don't quite understand.
MR. RUSSERT: OK.
REP. PAUL: They take our money from us, and the Congress has the authority to appropriate, not the executive branch. And I'm saying that I represent my people. They have a request, it's like taking a tax credit, and I put it in--the whole process is corrupt so that I vote against everything.
MR. RUSSERT: All right, let me ask you this. But if...
REP. PAUL: I vote against it, so I don't endorse the system.
MR. RUSSERT: But when it passes overwhelmingly, you take the money back home.
REP. PAUL: I don't take it. That's the system.
MR. RUSSERT: The system.
REP. PAUL: I'm trying to change that system. To turn it around and say I'm supporting this system, I find it...
MR. RUSSERT: Well. Well...
REP. PAUL: ...rather ironic and entertaining.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, when you stop taking earmarks or putting earmarks in the, in the spending bills, then I think you'll be consistent. Let me ask you about this...
REP. PAUL: Turn--you...
MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask this. Term limits. You ran on term limits. "I think we should have term limits for our elected leaders." You've been in Congress 18 years.
REP. PAUL: But I never ran on voluntary term limits. There's a big difference. I didn't sign a pledge for a voluntary term limit. Matter of fact, some of the best people that I worked with, who were the most principled, came in on voluntary term limits. Some of them broke their promises, and some didn't, and they were very good people. So some of the good people left. And it's true, I, I didn't run on that, Tim, you're wrong on that. I support term limits. You know, I, I, and I voted all--we had 16 votes one time on term limits, and I voted yes for them.
MR. RUSSERT: Yeah.
REP. PAUL: But voluntary term limits is a lot different than compulsory term limits. It's good to have a turnover, but that isn't the solution either. It's the philosophy of government that counts. It's only...
MR. RUSSERT: But if you believe in the philosophy of term limits, why wouldn't you voluntarily...
REP. PAUL: Well, it's, it's one of those, it's one of those things that's not on--I mean, you don't see that out I'm campaigning on that. I mean, I don't think it's--I don't think it's the solution. Philosophy is the solution. What the role of government ought to be, so if you have a turnover and the same people come in and they believe in big government, nothing good is going to come of it.
MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask you about immigration because that's a big issue here, and there has been a profound change. Back when you ran for president, 1988, libertarian, you said, "As in our country's first 150 years, there shouldn't be any immigration policy at all. We should welcome everyone who wants to come here and work." You've changed your view.
REP. PAUL: And, and during that campaign, I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently. And I think, in one sense, with the welfare state out of control--see, my approach to immigration is somewhat different than the others. Mine is you deal with it economically. We're in worse shape now because we subsidize immigration. We give food stamps, Social Security, free medical care, free education and amnesty. So you subsidize it, and you have a mess. Our hospitals are being closed. Conditions have changed. And I think that we should have--and, and 9/11 has occurred. Why shouldn't we be looking at people coming in? So there's--this, this means that we should look at immigration differently. It's an economic issue more than anything. If our economy was in good health, I--believe me, I don't think there'd be an immigration problem. We'd be looking for workers and we would be very generous.
MR. RUSSERT: You say you're a strict constructionist of the Constitution, and yet you want to amend the Constitution to say that children born here should not automatically be U.S. citizens.
REP. PAUL: Well, amending the Constitution is constitutional. What's a--what's the contradiction there?
MR. RUSSERT: So in the Constitution as written, you want to amend?
REP. PAUL: Well, that's constitutional, to do it. Besides, it was the 14th Amendment. It wasn't in the original Constitution. And there's a, there's a confusion on interpretation. In the early years, it was never interpreted that way, and it's still confusing because people--individuals are supposed to have birthright citizenship if they're under the jurisdiction of the government. And somebody who illegally comes in this country as a drug dealer, is he under the jurisdiction and their children deserve citizenship? I think it's awfully, awfully confusing, and, and I, I--matter of fact, I have a bill to change that as well as a Constitutional amendment to clarify it.
MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask you about drugs and go back again to your '90--'88 campaign and see where you stand today. "All drugs should be decriminalized. Drugs should be distributed by any adult to other adults. There should be no controls on production, supply or purchase for adults." Is that still your position?
REP. PAUL: Yeah. It's sort of like alcohol. Alcohol's a deadly drug, kills more people than anything else. And today the absurdity on this war on drugs, Tim, has just been horrible. We now, the federal government, takes over and rules--overrules state laws where state laws permit medicinal marijuana for people dying of cancer. The federal government goes in and arrests these people, put them in prison with mandatory, sometimes life sentences. This war on drugs is totally out of control. If you want to regulate cigarettes and alcohol and drugs, it should be at the state level. That's been my position, and that's where I stand on it. But the federal government has no, no prerogatives on this. They--when they wanted to outlaw alcohol, they had enough respect for the Constitution to amend the Constitution. Today we have all these laws and abuse, and they don't even care about the Constitution. I'm defending the Constitution on this issue. I think drugs are horrible. I teach my kids not to use them, my grandchildren, in my medical practice. Prescription drugs are a greater danger than, than hard drugs.
MR. RUSSERT: But you would decriminalize it?
REP. PAUL: I, I, I would, at the federal level. I don't have control over the states. And that's what the Constitution's there.
MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask you about race, because I, I read a speech you gave in 2004, the 40th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act. And you said this: "Contrary to the claims of" "supporters of the Civil Rights Act of" '64, "the act did not improve race relations or enhance freedom. Instead, the forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of" '64 "increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty." That act gave equal rights to African-Americans to vote, to live, to go to lunch counters, and you seem to be criticizing it.
REP. PAUL: Well, we should do, we should do this at a federal level, at a federal lunch counter it'd be OK or for the military. Just think of how the government, you know, caused all the segregation in the military until after World War II. But when it comes, Tim, you're, you're, and you’re not compelled in your house to invade strangers that you don't like. So it's a property rights issue. And this idea that all private property is under the domain of the federal government I think is wrong. So this--I think even Barry Goldwater opposed that bill on the same property rights position, and that--and now this thing is totally out of control. If you happen to like to smoke a cigar, you know the federal government's going to come down and say you're not allowed to do this.
MR. RUSSERT: But you would vote against...
REP. PAUL: So it's...
MR. RUSSERT: You would vote against the Civil Rights Act if, if it was today?
REP. PAUL: If it were written the same way, where the federal government's taken over property--has nothing to do with race relations. It just happens, Tim, that I get more support from black people today than any other Republican candidate, according to some statistics. And I have a great appeal to people who care about personal liberties and to those individuals who would like to get us out of wars. So it has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with the Constitution and private property rights.
MR. RUSSERT: I was intrigued by your comments about Abe Lincoln. "According to Paul, Abe Lincoln should never have gone to war; there were better ways of getting rid of slavery."
REP. PAUL: Absolutely. Six hundred thousand Americans died in a senseless civil war. No, he shouldn't have gone, gone to war. He did this just to enhance and get rid of the original intent of the republic. I mean, it was the--that iron, iron fist..
MR. RUSSERT: We'd still have slavery.
REP. PAUL: Oh, come on, Tim. Slavery was phased out in every other country of the world. And the way I'm advising that it should have been done is do like the British empire did. You, you buy the slaves and release them. How much would that cost compared to killing 600,000 Americans and where it lingered for 100 years? I mean, the hatred and all that existed. So every other major country in the world got rid of slavery without a civil war. I mean, that doesn't sound too radical to me. That sounds like a pretty reasonable approach.
MR. RUSSERT: You're running as a Republican. In your--on your Web site, in your brochures, you make this claim: "Principled Leadership. Ron was also one of only four Republican Congressmen to endorse Ronald Reagan for president against Gerald Ford in" '76. There's a photograph of you, Ronald Reagan on the right, heralding your support of Ronald Reagan. And yet you divorced yourself from Ronald Reagan. You said this: "Although he was once an ardent supporter of President Reagan, Paul now speaks of him as a traitor leading the country into debt and conflicts around the world. "I want to totally disassociate myself from the Reagan Administration." And you go on to The Dallas Morning News: "Paul now calls Reagan a `dramatic failure.'"
REP. PAUL: Well, I'll bet you any money I didn't use the word traitor. I'll bet you that's somebody else, so I think that's misleading. But a failure, yes, in, in many ways. The government didn't shrink. Ultimately, after he got in office, he said, "All I want to do is reduce the rate of increase in size of government." That's not my goal. My goal is to reduce our government to a constitutional size. Completely different. I think that--matter of fact, he admitted in his memoirs that he had a total failure in Lebanon, and he said he relearned the Middle East because of that failure. And so there--he--you know, he...
MR. RUSSERT: But if he's a total failure, why are you using, using his picture in your brochure?
REP. PAUL: Well, because he, he ran on a good program, and his, his idea was a limited government. Get rid of the Department of Education, a strong national defense.
MR. RUSSERT: George Herbert Walker Bush, this is according to Ron Paul: "`Bush is a bum,' Paul wrote in" "November" 15th, "1992 issue of his newsletter, the `Ron Paul Political Report.'" And asked about the current President Bush, whether he voted for him in 2004: "Paul says no: `He misled us in 2000.'" Asked if he voted for Bush in 2000. No, "`I didn't vote for him then, either. I wasn't convinced he was a conservative.'" And actually, in 1987, you submitted a letter of resignation to the Republican Party: "I therefore resign my membership in the Republican Party and enclose my membership card." If Reagan's a failure, Bush 41 is a bum, and you didn't vote for Bush 41--41's a bum and 43 you didn't vote for, and you resigned from the Republican Party, why you running as a Republican candidate for president?
REP. PAUL: Because I represent what Republicanism used to be. I represent the group that wanted to get rid of the Department of Education, the part, that part of the Republican Party that used to be non-interventionists overseas. That was the tradition, the Robert/Taft wing of the party. There was a time when the Republicans defended individual liberty and the Constitution and decreased spending. So the radicals, the ones who really don't belong in the Republican Party and why the Republican Party is shrinking, why the base is so small, is because they don't stand for these ideals any more. So I stand for the ideals of the Republican Party. I've been elected 10 times as Republican. I've been a Republican all my life except for that one year that I ran as a Libertarian. But, no, I represent the Republican ideals, I think, much more so that the individuals running for the party right now.
MR. RUSSERT: If, if you do not win the Republican nomination for president, will you run as an independent in 2008?
REP. PAUL: I have no intention to do that.
MR. RUSSERT: Absolute promise.
REP. PAUL: I have no intention of doing that.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, but no intention's a wiggle word.
REP. PAUL: Well, OK, I deserve one wiggle now and then, Tim. I mean, what the devil...
MR. RUSSERT: So no--so no Shermanesque statement.
REP. PAUL: You know, I...
MR. RUSSERT: "I will not sun as an independent."
REP. PAUL: Well, I can be pretty darned sure that I have no intention, no plans of doing it, and that's about 99.9 percent. I don't like people who are such absolutists, "I will never do this, or I will win, I'm going to come in first." I don't like those absolutists terms in politics.
MR. RUSSERT: But the door's open a little bit.
REP. PAUL: Not very much. It really isn't. I, I don't--Tim, we just raised $10 million in two days. We haven't even had a race, we have February 5th coming up. We have a campaign to run. Why--do you ask all the other--how many other candidates have you asked, "Are you going to run as a third party candidate if you don't win?" Have you asked John McCain that?
MR. RUSSERT: Well, if someone has a history of running as a third party candidate, sure. You ran in '88 as a Libertarian.
REP. PAUL: Yeah, well, I know...
MR. RUSSERT: It's a logical question.
REP. PAUL: ...but there are independents. So I--ask them, too.
MR. RUSSERT: I will. Before you go, Mike Huckabee, Republican candidate for president, ran this commercial for Christmas and many thought that the shelf in the back looked like a cross. You were asked about it on CNN and this is what you said.
REP. PAUL: It reminds me of what Sinclair Lewis once says. He said when fascism comes to this country; it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross.
MR. RUSSERT: What does that mean?
REP. PAUL: What? Fascism or the definition of fascism?
MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that Mike Huckabee is...
REP. PAUL: Oh, I didn't say that. I said it reminded me--as a matter of fact they caught me completely cold on that. I had not seen the ad, and they just said there was a cross there. And, you know, it was an instantaneous reflex because I knew of Sinclair Lewis about being cautious, because, you know, I--what prompts this is things like the Patriot Act. You know...
MR. RUSSERT: Let me go back...
REP. PAUL: No, no. If you're not a patriot...
MR. RUSSERT: But let me go back to this ad. You do not believe that Mike Huckabee, that ad commercial represents the potential of fascism in the form of a cross.
REP. PAUL: No. But I think this country, a movement in the last 100 years, is moving toward fascism. Fascism today, the softer term, because people have different definition of fascism, is corporatism when the military industrial complex runs the show, when the--in the name of security pay--pass the Patriot Act. You don't vote for it, you know, you're not patriotic America. If you don't support the troops and you don't support--if you don't support the war you don't support the troops. It's that kind of antagonism. But we have more corporatism and more abuse of our civil liberties, more loss of our privacy, national ID cards, all this stuff coming has a fascist tone to it. And the country's moving in that direction. That's what I'm thinking about. This was not personalized. I never even used my opponents names if you, if you notice.
MR. RUSSERT: So you think we're close to fascism?
REP. PAUL: I think we're approaching it very close. One--there's one, there's one documentary that's been put out recently that has generated a lot of interest called "Freedom to Fascism." And we're moving in that direction. Were not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we're moving toward a softer fascism. Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business. So you have the military industrial complex, you have the medical industrial complex, you have the financial industry, you have the communications industry. They go to Washington and spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That's where the control is. I call that a soft form of fascism, something that is very dangerous.
MR. RUSSERT: For the record, the Sinclair Lewis Society said that Mr. Lewis never uttered that quote.
REP. PAUL: But others refuted that and put them down and said that--and they found the exact quote where it came from.
MR. RUSSERT: To be continued. Dr. Ron Paul, be safe on the campaign trail. Thanks for sharing your views.
REP. PAUL: Thank you. Nice to be here.
MR. RUSSERT: As part of our Meet the Candidates 2008 series, we've invited candidates for president to appear here for in-depth interviews. Next Sunday, Republican candidate Mike Huckabee, who announced his presidency last January right here on MEET THE PRESS, returns. In addition, Democratic candidate, Senator Barack Obama, he'll be right here to talk about his campaign. Four days before the Iowa caucus, Republican Mike Huckabee, Democrat Barack Obama, both next Sunday live from Iowa right here on MEET THE PRESS. We're also archiving the transcripts and videos of the entire series on our Web site, mtp.msnbc.com, so voters can review the candidates' positions throughout the campaign.
Coming next, the very latest polls, strategies and commercials. We have just 11 days to go to the Iowa caucuses on January 3rd, 16 days to New Hampshire primary on January 8th. John Harwood, Chuck Todd are next, right here only on MEET THE PRESS.
MR. RUSSERT: The very latest from Iowa and New Hampshire. Our political roundtable--John Harwood, Chuck Todd--after this station break.
(Announcements)
MR. RUSSERT: And we're back. Welcome, both. Let's go right to the polling numbers. This is the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. The national numbers, look at that. Rudy Giuliani is now at 20, down 13 points in a month. Mitt Romney's up 9, Huckabee up 9, and McCain down 2, Thompson down 4. Giuliani, what caused the decline? Look at this. In March he had a 58-to-14 positive/negative. It's now 37/37 after an avalanche of stories about Bernard Kerik, his former police commissioner, about New York security guards and who they protected at taxpayers' money, about Rudy Giuliani's business interest, and it's taken a toll. But let's go to the states, because this is what really counts. Here's Iowa. Huckabee is ahead in both polls, 33 to 25 over Romney, 35 to 27 in other, the rest of the lineup there. Let's go to New Hampshire, some new numbers out today. The Boston Globe: Romney, 28; McCain, 25; Giuliani, 14; Huckabee, 10; and Paul, 8. Three points between McCain and Romney. An earlier poll had it a 7 point race. And in South Carolina, Huckabee, 28; Romney, 20; Giuliani, 12; McCain, 11; Thompson, 10. Chuck Todd, what does it all tell you?
MR. CHUCK TODD: Well, there's no Republican front-runner, and until we find out how badly Mitt Romney wins--loses Iowa, and I think that that's the assumption they're under at this point, that, that they're...
MR. JOHN HARWOOD: You called it already?
MR. TODD: They know that--they're worried they're going to lose Iowa, but they're trying to close the gap. They're trying to close this gap so that they look like they at least have a running start to salvage New Hampshire. Because their bigger fear right now, the Romney people are absolutely petrified of John McCain. He is on the rise.
MR. RUSSERT: So if Mitt Romney lost Iowa, a weakened Romney goes to New Hampshire, and if he's beaten there by John McCain?
MR. TODD: It's done. He's done.
MR. HARWOOD: He's done if he loses both of those. What they're hoping, as Chuck said, is that they either win--and I wouldn't, given how unpredictable this race is, I wouldn't rule out...
MR. TODD: Fair enough.
MR. HARWOOD: ...Romney and his organization pulling out a victory, but if he doesn't win, he needs to be strong in New Hampshire. If he loses both of those back to back to Huckabee and McCain, he's got big problems.
MR. RUSSERT: A--what Mitt Romney--there're several articles written about his talking about seeing his father marching with Martin Luther King in, in the '60s. He talked about it in his faith speech, he talked about it here on MEET THE PRESS, and then was forced to do some explaining. Let's watch what he said earlier this month.
(Videotape, December 8, 2007)
MR. MITT ROMNEY: I saw my father march with Martin Luther King.
(End videotape)
(Videotape, last Sunday)
MR. ROMNEY: But you can see what I believed and what my family believed by looking at our, at our lives. My dad marched with Martin Luther King.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: And then on Thursday, he sought to clarify what he really intended to say. Let's listen.
(Videotape, Thursday)
MR. ROMNEY: If you look at the literature or look at the dictionary, the term 'saw' includes 'being aware of' in the sense I've described. It's a figure of speech and very familiar, and it's very common. And I saw my Dad march with Martin Luther King. I did not see with my own eyes, but I saw him in the sense of being aware of his participation in the great effort.
(End videotape)
MR. HARWOOD: Tim, I think, if you look at the way Mitt Romney's run his campaign, there's plenty to criticize. Those of us old enough to remember "Leave It to Beaver" sometimes see Eddie Haskell in Mitt Romney going to every constituency group and saying, "You look so lovely, Mrs. Cleaver." In this case, though, I think when he's talking about his father, who was on the same side of--with Martin Luther King in the civil rights movement, marched in Grosse Pointe a few days after Martin Luther King marched in Detroit, I think that falls into the range of what our friend Bill McInturff, who does a journal NBC poll calls acceptable political hyperbole. I don't think it's a big deal.
MR. RUSSERT: He did say that the New York--New England Patriots won the World Series and corrected himself to say Super Bowl, thank God. Chuck:
MR. TODD: I disagree. I actually think this has turned into a little bit of a big deal. The blogs are nuts on it, the conservative blogs, because it's not that this is the first time he's done something like this. The problem is, is that it feeds into this idea that he will say and--say anything it takes to win over a constituency group. The Eddie Haskell thing, that's a--that, that cracked me up because you do have that feeling. He will say anything it takes to be liked, and that Martin Luther King thing. And the fact is, it's been a real distraction. Before it, you know, midweek last week, he stopped the bleeding in Iowa, he's being, you know, looked like he was finally starting, you know, Huckabee was getting on the defensive, and then he had to spend 48 hours dealing with this story. Luckily for him, there's so many other things distracting all the political press, but this was one of those things, I don't know if it goes away. Ask Al Gore what it's like when suddenly every word, it happens to get parsed. Mitt Romney is not been good when the pressure's been on and the spotlight's been on. And that's one of those moments.
MR. HARWOOD: I agree it's become a political problem. My point is on the substance, when he says "What I meant was, I was aware of it," that doesn't seem to me to be an unreasonable explanation.
MR. TODD: But they don't even have George Romney ever appearing with Martin Luther King. I mean, that was the problem is that there are many issues with it. It may be that his father never even marched with him.
MR. RUSSERT: But he was a crusader.
MR. TODD: Absolutely, and nobody wants to take that away from his father.
MR. HARWOOD: But I will say, Tim, you got to wonder how George Romney would feel about watching Mitt Romney in one of those debates a few days ago, criticizing Rudy Giuliani for saying that New York City was welcoming to illegal immigrants. Mitt Romney, for the reason that Chuck mentioned, is sort of taken and run with that immigration issue. George Romney might not like it.
MR. RUSSERT: And John McCain, he wants Huckabee to win Iowa big, as we said. He also would like to see Hillary Clinton knock off Barack Obama and John Edwards in Iowa and try to lock up the Democratic nomination. So all those independents in New Hampshire five days later would say, "You know what? I'm not going to play the Democratic primary, let me go in the Republican primary and find John McCain." Let's turn to the Democrats. Here's the latest national poll. Shows Hillary Clinton comfortably ahead 45, 23, 13. But when you go to the states it's a much different story. Here's two polls. One, Clinton is up 30, 28, 26; the other it's Obama, 33; Clinton, 29; Edwards is at 20. Then in New Hampshire, Obama--poll out this morning, Boston Globe--now pulling ahead of Hillary Clinton, in New Hampshire, 30; Clinton, 28; Edwards, 14; Richardson, 7. But the Gallup poll had it tied 32, 32, Edwards, 18. South Carolina, this is the poll. Obama, 35; Clinton, 35; Edwards, 13. And look at the breakdown now. Hillary Clinton comfortably ahead with whites, Obama's third. Blacks, who make up half the South Carolina Democratic primary, vote he's now comfortably ahead. What does that tell you, Chuck Todd?
MR. TODD: Well, it's interesting. The Obama folks, and the Clinton folks right now will tell you that the one candidate they're worried about is John Edwards in Iowa as far as this point. And I think it's interesting that when you have both camps saying they're both worried about this same guy, it tells you something's going on. And this is what's so wild about Iowa compared to the other two states. The other two states are two-person races. Iowa is not. It's a true three-way. If anything, you get the sense that actually Obama and Edwards are now suddenly fighting it out for first and second, and Clinton is almost standing back saying, "OK, I'm going to go on this, I'm going to go on this final tour of Iowa and say it's time to choose a president. You know, play `I'm the adult here. Let them fight it out.'" And either hope she gets a John Kerry-like, John Kerry-like bounce, or Edwards ends up pulling out Iowa and she can suddenly weaken Obama and the others.
MR. RUSSERT: If Hillary can't win Iowa herself, she would prefer that Barack lose to John Edwards.
MR. TODD: Absolutely.
MR. HARWOOD: Completely.
MR. TODD: And, and by the way, she also doesn't want to lose to Obama. I mean, one of the things that--they don't mind second place, but they certainly--you know, it's sort of like option one is winning. Option two is fin...
MR. RUSSERT: If Edwards, if Edwards won Iowa, could he catapult into New Hampshire and South Carolina? Does he have the resources?
MR. TODD: I think--I don't know if he has the resources after South Carolina. I think the fact is he's not--he's not as far back in New Hampshire as he was four years ago when he couldn't get the bounce. I think he can do, do the bounce. But the problem they've got is, if it's a three-way--what if it's 32-31-30? OK? And, and Clinton's a 30 and, and Edwards is a 32. Is that a victory? It's probably not a victory at that point, and then you sort of move on and that's where Edwards could get lost. I think he--if he wins Iowa, he needs a little bit of pad between first and second.
MR. RUSSERT: If Obama wins Iowa, John Harwood, what happens?
MR. HARWOOD: Well, if Obama wins Iowa, he's got a rocket going in to New Hampshire, and we've seen from this Globe poll that he's in a very strong position. He will be hard to stop if he wins the Iowa caucuses. But it's so interesting the games that people are playing and the positioning. The--Hillary Clinton would much rather lose to Edwards than Obama. John Edwards has got to beat Obama in Iowa to make himself viable. So everybody's got an angle to play.
MR. RUSSERT: Electability is such a big issue for the candidates, saying "I'm the one who can go into November and win this election for the Democratic Party." The national polls, interesting on some of those issues, and the Obama people have been touting them. Here's positive/negative on Barack Obama: 46, 26. Hillary Clinton, the same poll, her positives 42, her negatives 44. When you go head-to-head, Clinton beats Giuliani 46, 43; Obama, he wins 49-to-40. In terms of Clinton/Huckabee, Clinton wins 46-44; Obama, he wins 48-to-36. They get the same Democratic vote, but Obama does better with Republicans and he wins independents. Clinton loses Republicans over...(unintelligible)...and loses independents. Do voters care about this?
MR. HARWOOD: Sure they care about it. And they're going to be making assessments of these candidates all through the year, and the electability argument is something that's got some juice for Obama. Let me tell you a story. I was with an old school friend recently. Classic Reagan Democrat, works in the auto body business, had a copy of the Lou Dobbs book, "War on the Middle Class" on his kitchen table. And he said, `You know, I've been voting Republican for years, but I've decided they're for the rich. I'm sick of the Republicans.' And I said, `Oh, so you're prepared to vote for Hillary Clinton?' He said, `Never.' There are millions of people like that. How they decide this could impact what's going to happen in the general election.
MR. RUSSERT: The campaign between Clinton and Obama's gotten a bit testy. This was Jake Tapper, ABC broke this story: "The campaign of Senator Hillary Clinton has registered the names of two Web sites with the express goal of attacking her chief rival," "Barack Obama. It's the first time this election cycle a presidential campaign has launched a Web site with the express purpose of launching serious criticisms on a rival." And we saw this brochure put out in Iowa from AFSCME. We'll put it on the screen here and share it. That's the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. "Barack Obama's healthcare plan is not up to the job. John Edwards has said `as many as 15 million Americans would be without coverage'" "under Obama's plan." Quoting Edwards attacking Obama, paid for by a union that is supporting Hillary Clinton.
MR. TODD: Even better, the head of that union is not for a healthcare mandate, Jerry McEntee. So...
MR. RUSSERT: Which is what Clinton's for.
MR. TODD: Which is what Clinton's for. So it really is sort of--you want to talk why Iowa is three-dimensional chess, it is the ultimate--I think it's more five-dimensional chess, if there's such a thing. But it is--look, you want to have Edwards and Obama look like they're muddying each other up. Yesterday they had this big spat over third party groups. Clinton, at this point, is now hoping to play what John--the role John Edwards was playing two weeks ago, which was, "Well, I'm standing on the sidelines just trying to talk about being president. Let these two kids fight in the schoolyard." She's kind of hoping for the same thing. Quick note, though, on these third party groups. In the last--we're now 11 days?--pro-Edwards advertising is going to outspend now pro-Clinton and pro-Obama advertising in Iowa. That is a stunning thing, because you have this new third party 527 funded by the SEIU, and it is now spending more on TV advertising, frankly, than even John Edwards.
MR. RUSSERT: Is he denying that he knows anything about it?
MR. TODD: He is denying that he knows anything about it. They're campaign is officially saying please stop. But of course, you know...
MR. RUSSERT: How can a crusader against special interest money be helped by special interest money buying TV commercials that assist his candidacy?
GOV. ROMNEY: Well, which is what Obama criticized him for yesterday. And Edwards did feel on the defensive as the day went on. Reporters beat him up over this, because he, in 2004, said that George Bush could have stood up to the swift boat guys and could have said, "Stop doing these ads." And by the end of the day...
MR. HARWOOD: Tim, this is part of, this is part of our system in the post McCain-Feingold world. It's baked into the cake for every candidate, both political parties.
MR. RUSSERT: Here's Barack Obama on Hillary Clinton on Thursday, without ever mentioning her name. Let's watch.
(Videotape)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL): Now, I'm not going to mention names, but, I mean, the notion that I'm, I'm, you know, that a viability or electability argument is being made by somebody who starts off with almost half the country not being willing to vote for them doesn't make much sense.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: John Harwood, does that work?
MR. HARWOOD: Well, he's going to try to make it work. And you look at our poll numbers and there's some support for it. But nobody can credibly argue that Hillary Clinton cannot win the election next year. I think she trades in a narrower band than, than Obama; that her floor and ceiling are closer to one another. Obama, depending on how he handles the experience argument in general election, could fall further and could rise further because of the potential unifying factor in his candidacy. But look, Democrats go into this 2008 campaign with the upperhand, and that's going to benefit whoever's the nominee...
MR. RUSSERT: Clinton...
MR. HARWOOD: ...even if they have negatives.
MR. RUSSERT: The Clinton campaign counters that by the time Obama became the nominee, his negatives would be almost as high as hers, so please don't...
MR. TODD: It's a fair--look, eight years ago at this time Bill Bradley had a better rating than Al Gore in national polls, and John McCain had a better rating than George Bush in national polls. And at the end of the day, neither one of those guys won their respective nominations. So we should keep that in mind.
MR. RUSSERT: Now, all these candidates have special Christmas TV commercials. Did any of them work?
MR. TODD: Look, I think the only one that worked is the one we all are still talking about, Mike Huckabee's ad. He was the first one up, and it's the only one we seem to be talking about.
MR. RUSSERT: It's a brilliant ad. The other ones are clever, too. Hillary Clinton's got an ad where she's looking for Christmas presents, and, "Oh, I forgot universal healthcare," or whatever it was.
MR. RUSSERT: Ron Paul has his family singing, Barack Obama has his two young girls.
MR. HARWOOD: He's got his kids saying Merry Christmas.
MR. RUSSERT: John McCain, John Ed--everybody has one.
MR. TODD: McCain's is strong, too, and he uses a cross. The drawing of the cross in the, in the line, and talking about--he's at least in message.
MR. RUSSERT: But...
MR. HARWOOD: Edwards is a little pugnacious. But look, everybody's got to navigate this unfamiliar calendar. Nobody knows how voters are going to react to what goes on between Christmas and New Year's, and they're trying to be careful.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, you know, MEET THE PRESS has not been spared in this Christmas season by the funny papers. The cartoonist, "Bizarro," Don Piraro, decided this was funny. "Santa Meets Timmy Russert: Let me remind you" "on December 12th, 1957, you said, `I will get you that red bike.'"
MR. TODD: So you didn't get a red bike?
MR. RUSSERT: No, I never got the red bike.
MR. TODD: You never got the red bike.
MR. RUSSERT: But I put it up on the screen for fat boy to remind him. He better show this year.
MR. HARWOOD: What you got for Christmas is Mike Huckabee and Barack Obama next Sunday. That's going to be a great show.
MR. TODD: I--we've all got what we want for Christmas. It's this race. Unbelievable.
MR. RUSSERT: Two races, two parties, two nominations and nobody knows who's going to win.
MR. HARWOOD: I sure don't. Maybe Chuck does.
MR. TODD: Six plausible presidents, six plausible presidents at this point.
MR. RUSSERT: Chuck Todd...
MR. TODD: It's unbelievable.
MR. RUSSERT: ...John Harwood, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
(Announcements)
MR. RUSSERT: That's all for today. Reminder, next week we'll be live in Iowa. Republican candidate Mike Huckabee, Democratic candidate Barack Obama. Just four days before the Iowa caucuses, and MEET THE PRESS will be there. If it's Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS.
Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy holidays.
“Silent Lucidity” lyrics by Queensryche
Hush now don't you cry
Wipe away the tear drops from your eye
You're lying safe in bed
It was all a bad dream
Spinning thru your head
Your mind tricked you to feel the pain
Of someone close to you leaving the game, of life
So here it is, another chance
Wide awake, you face the day
Your dream is over...
Or has it just begun?
There's a place I like to hide
A door way that I run thru in the night
Relax child, you were there
But only didn't realize, and you were scared
It's a place where you will learn
To face your fears, retrace the years
And ride the whims of your mind
Commanding in another world
Suddenly, you hear and see
This magic new dimension
(Chorus)
I -- will be watching over you
I -- am gonna help you see it through
I -- will protect you in the night
I -- am smiling next to you
In Silent Lucidity
Visualize your dreams
Write them into permanent form
If you consist in your efforts
You will achieve
Dream control
Control, how is that, better?
Dream control, Dream control
Help me…
If you open your mind for me
You won't rely on open eyes to see
The walls you built within
Come tumbling down, and a new world will begin
Living twice at once you learn
You're some from pain in the dream domain
A soul set free to fly
A round trip journey in your head
Master of illusion, can you realize
Your dream's alive, you can be the guide but...
(Chorus)
“Bleeding” lyrics by Flickerstick
See you down on your knees
But I know your beggin' please
Why you still here
So mean to me
So you, you, want to know
But you'll never be with me
(Chorus)
How far will you drive?
How far will you drive?
Tonight I'm gonna be
Another catastrophe
Better than the first time
So why, why, why'd you go
You’re tearing me down so low
I knew you'd be here tonight
(Chorus, x3)
Everyone is here with me
But there just here to be seen
Maybe I could, watch them bleed
If they weren’t so effin mean
(Chorus, x3)
So why, why, why'd you go
You’re tearing me down so low
I always knew you'd be here tonight
Can't we get it right?
And for once try not to fight
And I could still be bleeding, bleeding, bleeding, bleeding, bleeding
Watch me get it right
(Chorus, x3)
How far…
You say it's over
You say it's over
And I think you believe yourself, when you say
You say it's over
You say it's over
And I think you believe yourself, when you say
When you say (repeat x4)
"Nonstop to Nowhere" by Faster Pussycat
Well its 5 o'clock in the morning
And I-aight can't fall asleep, again
Times are changing and moving fast and way too fast for me
Seems like only yesterday I was skipping school and stealing gasoline
I've been talking I guess you call it talking a, white lie
One minute I'm on top of the world
And the next thing you know…
(Chorus)
I'm on the lame train
I got a first-class ticket on the nonstop to nowhere
(To know where)
Where it takes me I don't know
(I’m starting to know where)
I guess the tracks you make
(On your own)
I'm on the lame train
I got a first-class ticket on the nonstop to nowhere
(To know where)
Where it takes me I don't know
(I’m starting to know where)
Sometimes I
Just sit and daydream
And I-aight-aight just slips away, from here
If only I had a crystal ball or could invent a time machine
I'd go into the future take a good look around
And see what life has in store for me
I've been walking I guess you call it walking a, thin line
One minute I'm on top of the world and the next thing you know…
I'm on the lame train
I got a first-class ticket on the nonstop to nowhere
(To know where)
Where it takes me I don't know
(I’m starting to know where)
I guess the tracks you make
(On your own)
It's like a chain gang
(It’s a shame game and I know the exit)
But my problems seem to follow me
(To know where)
And I know
(It seems to follow me)
Nonstop to know where
(Solo)
I'm on the lame train
I got a first-class ticket on the nonstop to nowhere
Where it takes me I don't know
I guess the tracks you make
On your own.
Now I’m on the lame train
I got the first class ticket on the nonstop to nowhere
(To know where)
It’s all caught written in stone
(Nonstop to nowhere)
I guess the tracks you make
On your own
(Chorus)
“Down With The Sickness” lyrics by Disturbed
(Can you feel that?
Oh sh@t!)
Oh wah ah ah ah!
Oh wah ah ah ah!
Ugh ugh
Ugh ugh
Drowning deep in my sea of loathing
Broken your servant I kneel
(Will you give it to me?)
It seems what's left of my human side
is slowly changing in me
(Will you give it to me?)
Looking at my own reflection
when suddenly it changes
violently it changes (argh)
there is no turning back now
you’ve woken up the demon
In mehhh!
(Chorus)
Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me
Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Your mother get up, come on get down with the sickness
Your fluxer get up, come on get down with the sickness
Madness is the gift, that has been given to me
I can see inside you, the sickness is rising
Don't try to deny what you feel
(Will you give it to me?)
It seems that all that was good has died
and is decaying in me
(Will you give it to me?)
It seems you're having some trouble
(In dealing with these changes
Living with these changes, oh no)
the world is a scary place
Now that you've woken up the demon in me
(Chorus)
And when I dream
And when I dream
And when I dream
And when I dreahhm!
(No mommy, don't do it again
don’t do it again
I'll be a good boy
I'll be a good boy, I promise
No mommy don't hit me - argh
Why did you have to hit me like that mommy
Don’t do it, your hurting me
Why did you have to be such a b@tch
Why don't you,
Why don't you flux off and die
Why can't you just flux off and die
Why can't you just leave here and die
Never stick your hand in my face again b@tch
FLUX YOU
I don't need this sh@t
You stupid sadistic abusive fluxing whore
How would you have to see how it feels mommy
Here it comes, get ready to die)
Oh wah ah ah ah!
(Chorus)
“About Mr. Brown” lyrics by O.A.R.
What can you say about tomorrow?
What can you know about my life?
What do you say to your daughter?
What do you tell to your wife?
La da, day oh…
So Mr. Brown about your daughter,
I think I know where she went tonight.
Do you agree that we are lost here?
Well that’s alright?
Well, among the lost we shall survive.
La da, day oh…
(Sax solo)
What can you say about this weather?
We got a nice day today didn’t we, it was nice?
I feel his soul light as a feather.
Oh my man. A long time ago you went flat out insane.
La da, day oh…
Say Mr. Brown about your brother.
Can you see what he is doing with his life?
The more you push your kids out of the front door.
One day, they are going to come back and askin where is my life.
La da, day oh…
What's that you say? When the rain won't go away?
What's that you know? When no one's looking at you?
Where's that you go after the show?
Wanna say what you do with your life?
(Solo by Rich)
Oh I say Mr. Brown, whatcha been thinking?
I don’t know, what have you been drinking? Ayy oh.
I say your wife, is out on her own while your heart is at home chillin.
You don’t ever have a home. I say…
You see another because she don’t love you no more.
But you want to step out, out that front-front door.
I say, you been dropped down to the bottom of the list, just…
I’ll give you once chance, one chance to resist.
I know Mr. Brown you isn’t coming to the show.
You got no life and you got no soul, any-mo.
So get up and get down, bust your ass to get out of our town.
Bust it around Mr. Brown… Yeah!
(Sax solo)
Say Mr. Brown how about your mother?
Do you see what she's done tonight?
She was seeing all the colors,
But the darkness was out of sight.
"Getting Away with Murder" lyrics by Papa Roach
Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate
What creates my own madness?
And I'm addicted to your punishment
And you're the master
And I am waiting for disaster
(Chorus)
I feel irrational
So confrontational
To tell the truth I am
Getting away with murder
It isn't possible
To never tell the truth
But the reality is I'm getting away with murder
(Getting away, Getting away, Getting away)
I drink my drink and I don't even want to
I think my thoughts when I don't even need to
I never look back cause I don't even want to
And I don't need to
Because I'm getting away with murder
(Chorus)
(Getting away, Getting away, Getting away, Getting away, Getting away, Getting away, Getting away, Getting away, Getting away with murder)
Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate
What creates my own madness?
And I'm addicted to your punishment
And I'm the master
And I am craving this disaster
(Chorus x2)
"Survival of the Sickest" lyrics by Saliva
1 2 3 4!
I'm the hand up Mona Lisa's dress,
I'm the smile on every criminal you'll ever acquit.
I'm the things you've done you'll never admit.
'Cause one hand is on the bible and the others in sh@t.
(Chorus)
Right now, your face is in the crowd, I'm shouting out loud, the one you counted out of the game.
Oh wow, take a good look at me now, should have never had a doubt, is that you I hear screaming my name.
I'm a roller, I'm a rider, number one motherfluxin' survivor.
So move over, I'm the driver, and I'm high and I'm gonna keep getting higher, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm the one you thought that you could erase, but a predator that's faster than the food that he chased.
When you fall off the horse you brought to the race, I'll be the one who's flying by you kickin' sh@t in your face.
(Chorus)
So ease down, and wrap your legs around me babe.
Move over baby, get on your knees. I'm gonna drive this little red love machine.
(Chorus)
“We are the Champions” lyrics by Queen
I've paid my dues -
Time after time -
I've done my sentence
But committed no crime -
And bad mistakes
I've made a few
I've had my share of sand kicked in my face -
But I've come through
We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions - of the world -
I've taken my bows
And my curtain calls -
You brought me fame and fortune and everything that goes with it
-
I thank you all -
But it's been no bed of roses
No pleasure cruise -
I consider it a challenge before the whole human race -
And I isn’t gonna lose -
We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions - of the world –
“Fine Again” lyrics by Seether
It seems like every day’s the same
and I’m left to discover on my own
It seems like everything is gray
and there’s no color to behold
They say it’s over and I’m fine again, yeah
Try to stay sober feels like I’m dying here
(Chorus)
And I am aware now of how
everything’s gonna be fine one day
Too late, I’m in hell I am prepared now,
seems everyone’s gonna be fine
One day too late, just as well
I feel the dream in me expire
and there’s no one left to blame it on
I hear you label me a liar
‘cause I can’t seem to get this through
You say it’s over, I can sigh again, yeah
Why try to stay sober when I’m dying here
(Chorus)
And I’m not scared now.
I must assure you,
you’re never gonna get away
And I’m not scared now.
And I’m not scared now. No…
(Chorus)
I am prepared now,
seems everything’s gonna be fine for me
For me; for myself.
For me, for me, for myself
For me, for me, for myself
“Pride” lyrics by Saliva
One, two, three, four…
A message to
our enemies
Never flux with one whose had to fight for being free
Whether it's one, or two, or three
We'll take our pleasure out on making you believe
And I'm taking you out and I'm taking you down, you'll see
And I'm taking you out and I'm taking you down with me
The pride of America, is the fear that's in your eyes
And your insecurity will undo you in time
I hear the people say
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Cause we're the pride of America
A message to your enemies
Never flux with one who's had to fight for being free.
Whether it's one, or two, or three
We'll take our pleasure out on making you believe
And I'm taking you out and I'm taking you down, you'll see
And I'm taking you out and I'm taking you down with me
The pride of America is the fear that's in your eyes
And your insecurity will undo you in time
It's just like the old folks say, it's an eye for an eye
There's no turning back now that you're on the front lines
Hell yeah
And I hear the people saying....
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Cause we're the pride of America
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Cause we're the pride of America
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Cause we're the pride of America
One
The fluxing pride of America
“Bleed It Out” lyrics by Linkin Park
Here we go for the hundredth time,
Hand grenade pins in every line,
Throw 'em up and let something shine.
Going out of my f**king mind.
Filthy mouth, no excuse.
Find a new place to hang this noose.
String me up from atop these roofs.
Knot it tight so I won't get loose.
Truth is you can stop and stare,
Bled myself out and no one cares.
Dug a trench out, laid down there
With a shovel up out to reach somewhere.
Yeah someone pour it in,
Make it a dirt dance floor again.
Say your prayers and stomp it out,
When they bring that chorus in.
(Chester Bennington)
(Chorus)
I bleed it out,
Digging deeper just to throw it away.
I bleed it out,
Digging deeper just to throw it away.
I bleed it out,
Digging deeper just to throw it away,
Just to throw it away,
Just to throw it away.
I bleed it out.
(Mike Shinoda)
I bleed it out.
Go, stop the show.
Choppy words and a sloppy flow.
Shotgun opera, lock and load,
Cock it back and then watch it go.
Mama help me, I've been cursed,
Death is rolling in every verse.
Candy paint on his brand new hearse.
Can't contain him, he knows he works.
F**k this hurts, I won't lie.
Doesn't matter how hard I try.
Half the words don't mean a thing,
And I know that I won't be satisfied.
So why, try ignoring him.
Make it a dirt dance floor again.
Say your prayers and stomp it out,
When they bring that chorus in.
(Chester Bennington)
(Chorus)
I bleed it out.
I've opened up these scars,
I'll make you face this.
I pulled myself so far,
I'll… make… you… face… this now!
(Chorus)
I bleed it out,
Digging deeper just to throw it away.
I bleed it out,
Digging deeper just to throw it away.
I bleed it out,
Digging deeper just to throw it away,
Just to throw it away,
Just to throw it away.
I bleed it out.
I bleed it out.
I bleed it out.
